Transforming Dreams into Reality: Juan Carlos on Documentary Filmmaking, AI, and Building an iPhone App with ChatGPT In this episode, Juan Carlos shares his extraordinary journey from being a documentary filmmaker to becoming a product leader and app developer. He discusses his transition from film school at NYU to directing notable documentaries like 'Second Skin,' which explored the lives of individuals deeply integrated into online video games. Juan Carlos dives into his experience using ChatGPT as a developmental tutor to create an iPhone app from scratch, despite having no prior programming experience. He provides insights into project selection, overcoming technical challenges, and utilizing ChatGPT for productivity and self-development. Key takeaways include the importance of minimal viable products, leveraging AI for task automation, and innovative methods like using AI to analyze personal cognitive biases.
Transforming Dreams into Reality: Juan Carlos on Documentary Filmmaking, AI, and Building an iPhone App with ChatGPT
00:00 Introduction to Vanity and AI
01:02 Exploring Virtual Worlds
01:47 Transition to Digital and Photography
03:07 Project Selection and Mindset
08:30 Building an iPhone App with ChatGPT
10:38 Overcoming Technical Hurdles
32:39 Exploring Different Data Formats
32:43 Building a Basic iOS App
35:50 Defining the MVP
37:08 Navigating the App Store
37:55 Future Projects and Chatbots
41:48 Conclusion and Reflections
📜 Read the transcript for this episode: Transcript of Make ChatGPT Your Personal Tutor: Documentary Film Maker Juan Carlos On How ChatGPT Turned Him Into An iPhone App Developer
[00:00:00] Juan Carlos: I'm Juan Carlos. I started out as a documentary filmmaker. I transformed into a product leader, and then I'm probably known in this space for having built an iOS app from scratch, having no programming experience whatsoever. So it's been an exciting time for me as I've learned to be able to create and build these things for myself.
In a new way that allows me to do things that I've never been able to do before.
[00:00:32] Jeremy Utley: I believe you're a photographer by training. Is that correct?
[00:00:35] Juan Carlos: A filmmaker. So I went to NYU film for undergrad and I directed a couple of motion pictures. So I was there at NYU from 1999 to 2003. And then I graduated from there and I went on to direct my first picture in 2008.
And then that was a documentary called Second Skin. It was about online video games like World of Warcraft, EverQuest, Second Life. And it was about folks who are essentially either deeply embedded with one foot in the real world, one foot in the virtual world. Or folks who had been through transformative journeys of their own, essentially had a debilitating disease.
He was handicapped, had to be in a wheelchair, had very little ability to use much more than his hands to type. And he found sort of a voice in the virtual space. So it was a really cool documentary that was a lot of fun to make. And I think it actually lent itself to some of what we ended up or we're ending up talking about today.
I do a lot of photography, but it's mostly as a result of the filmmaking.
[00:01:51] Jeremy Utley: You, you've said to us privately that you've had for a long time, this desire to build an app. Where did that desire come from? Tell us a little bit about your desire to build something totally different from a documentary. And what both inspired it, but also what kept you from actually manifesting it for a number of years.
So,
[00:02:11] Juan Carlos: The first app that I wanted to make was a list app for myself because I was going, have all these lists. I had started a website at the time called pop 10. Uh, it was a pop culture blog, but it was all top 10 lists. I'm going, I need something to codify this and make it something bigger. And so started to, you know, play around and mock things up, try to get an engineer or actually three to help build it.
And it went. Like this far along before, you know, one of them moved across the country, the other one goes somewhere else and it just kept on losing its thing. So year after year, I'm trying to figure out how am I going to make this thing? And, you know, fast forward, I started working in an iOS app called Onward for Anti Addiction and I became the director of product there.
So I started to be able to deeply influence. The way that we were building this app started to think about things in terms of minimum viable product and, you know, simple stuff, but it was building blocks into becoming someone who's a product manager, I kept on wanting to build something I kept on either.
It was at first it was the list app, and then I wanted to build this. Application for mental models eventually. And I wanted to get that out there and, you know, I'd get some interest, but not enough. I learned and
[00:03:38] Jeremy Utley: by, by some interest, you mean from collaborators or people? Yeah.
[00:03:41] Juan Carlos: From collaborators that would help me, you know, I kept on going the route of, Hey, I'm not the technical found card comes out and you go, at
[00:03:50] Jeremy Utley: what point did you realize, or what happened, what did you see in the world that, where you said this could be my collaborator?
[00:04:00] Juan Carlos: When ChatGBT 3. 5 comes out, it's one of those moments where everyone starts looking at this thing, right? And I was the same. So, November 22, I started looking at it the same way everyone does, and I think I just noticed, Wow, this thing is amazing, and I was using it just to do basics. I think I realized pretty quickly that other people thought it was a novelty, and I immediately took it very seriously.
Where a lot of the people that I hear about the most have some of the deepest thoughts around, uh, all kinds of subjects go, Oh yeah, no, I, I gave it a shot and I was going, I'm using this thing every minute of every day and soaking it in. I love this thing. This is such an interesting format. It's so knowledgeable.
It can do, it's a Swiss army knife for doing anything.
[00:04:53] Jeremy Utley: Well, so this is interesting because we see this bifurcation oftentimes where some folks show up to chat to BT and go, ah, it's not that good and give up. And then others show up and they have their worlds transformed. What did you see or what can you tell us about, and maybe contrast your own experience with some friends who tried it and were like, ah, there's nothing really to it, what, what was different about your experience or what?
Enables you to persist for have some in the face of some of those early misfires and confusion, you know, dead ends.
[00:05:28] Juan Carlos: It's a good question because I often come back to this around who is Chachi VT a fit for versus not and why do they care about this? Application versus those that don't, and for the people that do, it's such an obvious, duh, kind of moment, right?
Where you go, if I'm not doing this, I am going to be left behind. If I'm not doing this, I'm not finding the most value in what is, I would consider the most valuable software, just LLMs in general, not specifically chat2BT, but obviously GPT is the preeminent version of that. But just the unique power of those.
And so when I think about what are the things I find valuable about it that aren't true about someone else, I wonder about productivity. So I'm a huge productivity nerd and it's an accelerant. So it's one of those things where I go, well, it could take me 45 minutes to do X. But with this, I could do it in ten.
Oh, I could write a ten page paper in maybe four or five days of deep work. Or, I could write it in an evening. And so, those Are considerations for me about, Hey, the, these things are immediately interesting and valuable to me.
[00:06:56] Henrik Werdelin: Do you think you have, I mean, obviously I know you're right about mental models.
Do you have a mental model for when to use Chattopadhyay and when not to? And the reason why I'm asking you is because my sense is that a lot of people that are very efficient of using Chattopadhyay kind of almost have like a brain trigger that if they're about to do something or anything, then they kind of go there first.
And other people just never have that. And so therefore it becomes one of those things where they go like, Oh, you know, I probably should use it more, but you know, don't get around to do it. Do you have like a middle model for how to think about it or become better using it?
[00:07:34] Juan Carlos: So one thing I notice with folks who don't use it is they expect the answer to come out correctly the first time.
And then when it doesn't, it's a question of, Oh, well, this thing doesn't work that well. You go, well, you didn't. Ask one questions to frame the problem to, you may not have asked the right kinds of framing. So when you frame a project for someone that you're going to give this to, and you say, let's delegate this over here, right?
So you're a manager at a company and you need to delegate something. You're not going to give them two sentences, say, Hey, go on your way. And yet with a. AI, I see a lot of folks try to input a prompt that it is much less than what you would expect out of a human to then calibrate them and have them move much slower than the AI would anyway toward a goal.
So What's the better framing? How do you deliver more instruction? And how do you help them understand the way in which you need them to respond? And all of that can be built in, right? So, I think you see a lot of weak prompting. Not that it's incorrect. But that they aren't delivering the full concept or idea in the first place to get them started.
And then I think the want is for a full response at the start rather than a framing and a structure. So I think when we start, it's more about framing and questions around structure of response than it is about
[00:09:20] Jeremy Utley: Yeah. You know what? I heard something interesting the other day. Ethan Mollick, who's a professor of Wharton, who's written a book that's coming out shortly about working with AI.
One thing that he said, which I hadn't heard before, but I found very interesting was that developers aren't the best users of AI. Actually the best users of AI are teachers because they're really good at talking to humans and developers. Actually, there's been early use cases because they're so.
Specific about what their criteria are. And because software development is, you know, debugging and implementing code is like a super fast feedback loop. So it's become a, you know, kind of a quintessential use case. But he said, if you just compare people types of who's actually well suited to use chat, GPT, someone who knows how to talk to people.
Is much better equipped to leverage chat GPT than someone who knows how to talk to technology. I found that pretty fascinating. I think it gets Juan Carlos to your point that you'd, I love that example. You'd never give it. And then when it doesn't, we go, ah, it's no better than my intern. It's like, well.
You haven't really given it a chance. So tell us a little bit about how you built your iPhone app with Chaju BT. Cause I think a lot of folks, they tell us, first of all, your credentials. I think there's a single word for your credentials, right? Zero in terms of, you know, technical know how. So how did you go from somebody with basically zero technical know how into.
Fully functional iPhone app in the Apple store, walk us through that journey. And, and yeah, maybe we might interrupt a couple of
[00:10:55] Juan Carlos: times. I'll preface it with, I've, I hacked around on HTML and CSS like any other human, when you're doing a WordPress site. So. I, I had that like sliver, so I don't want to be remiss and say that I had like absolute zero, but maybe like one out of 10 and zero in terms of programming, developing with code.
Certainly I had never coded any application using Swift, Swift UI to build an app. I've never used Xcode for that method. So all of that was brand new. Been able to look at engineers who had done that when I was building an iOS app for onward, but I'd never legitimately been inside the bricks of it myself.
And so the I'd had this idea in my mind for a little while to make a mental models app and. I thought, well, I've always wanted to build my own iOS app, but it's completely outta reach. And then, you know, come, I believe it's March of 23, I'm gonna get if I don't make the thing right now. Because you were seeing people just building stuff immediately.
Right? So January to March it felt like fervor to me. You know, you had people showing, Hey, I can do this, I can do that. I was so robbed at that stage. I thought the world was just in this change state, which it is, but where were you
[00:12:27] Jeremy Utley: seeing this? Were you, were you seeing this on Twitter where people are just building This was pre
[00:12:30] Juan Carlos: everyone ditches Twitter because it went to absolute insanity.
It was right at that moment where I think it was P AI Twitter, and I'm going, oh my gosh, I'm gonna, I am missing out. I am losing my mind right now. This thing is the future, and I think it led me to want to build quick. And so I was getting pushed to go, okay, do something, do something. And then there's one tweet by this guy, Morten Just, who I, I don't know.
He was writing about AI at the time. I don't, he probably still is, but I saw this one tweet where he describes making an app in two nights and that he's, you know, an engineer and he shows the prompt that he used in a video just to get started and I went, that's it. I'm going to try. And so I, I took a, I, I looked at that prompt and tried to rewrite it and it didn't work just out of the gate for some reason, because he wasn't building it as an iOS app, he was building something else.
So I went, okay. Let me see if GPT can literally tell me how to start at how would I build an iOS app? What software would I use? Why would I use it? Which method is the right one if I'm trying to build something simple? And so it started to deliver on structure. I think I learned structure early on to ask, hey, what are the different ways that this could go?
told me what to do, I downloaded Xcode on its behalf and I really started to think about it that way.
[00:14:18] Jeremy Utley: Okay, so just in case someone missed that, on its behalf, what do you mean What is, what does on its behalf mean and what do you mean that you started thinking about it that way?
[00:14:27] Juan Carlos: Right. So one, it's a collaborator, but it's a much smarter collaborator than I am.
And I am. leading our discussion in the sense that directionally I'm providing the way in which we're fundamentally doing something, but it is the mensch wizard thing, magician that is essentially saying, Hey, do this, not that, do this, not that go here, go there, you know, I can't go through the woods. alone without a map, possibly could, but I'd probably get stuck somewhere and starve, right?
And then suddenly there's this guide that's going to get you through the woods the whole way, and you're going to get to the other side somehow, because this thing has the capacity to do that. And so, you know, I started to think of it as my best friend, chat GPT, like this thing is, is a buddy that's helping me out.
It's a smart engineer is willing to take time with me in a way that no engineer ever has, mostly because they want to take it back. I mean, any human, they go, Hey, what do you want? I'll go do something. I'll come back and show you the fruits of my labor. And that's the general way in which every working relationship tends to work.
You have yourself as a creator. Or in this case, a, a founder that's a Caribbean, but it's going to say, Hey, can you go do something? And in this scenario, it's a, well, you're going to have to do it yourself, but I'm going to show you every step of the way, as long as you're willing to take some detours with me too.
So we took a lot of detours together, but it, the dynamic. And the reason why I say at its behalf is because I wouldn't have made those choices. I was asking it for the choices that. It was then able to provide me, obviously, via an LLM, the knowledge base that it has access to, and it's not magic because we know what it is, but it's magic, right?
When you think about what it's capable of doing, even at this nascent state, it's absolute.
[00:16:28] Jeremy Utley: Can you tell us the first time, if you remember, what's the, what's the first time that you thought, I can't believe it did that?
[00:16:36] Juan Carlos: So I'm, I'm big into self development, self growth, and mental models is a part of that.
Framing and understanding the world as a, for layer at a base layer. Right. And so I think one of the first things that I did was think about, Hey, I'm in this situation. Can you describe to me via cognitive biases, how I am or am not seeing something? I forget the exact words, but the description back was spot on.
And I thought, this is a better version of what a therapist would be able to deliver to me off the cuff. Just full stop. I was in. And what are the cognitive biases that I am in as a result of the way that I'm writing this, right? So just, here's a blob of text about What I'm going through,
[00:17:30] Jeremy Utley: Oh, what do you see?
Okay. So walk us through, if you're going to give a class to someone to try to replicate this experience, let me, I'll say what I think I'm hearing. And then you just correct me as the teacher. Okay. So I'm just your pupil, but what I'm hearing you say is, um, describe a scenario where you, where you wonder what kind of cognitive biases are affecting your own thinking.
Maybe it's a relationship issue or work issue or whatever. But just blah, as you said, verbal vomit into ChadGBT, pardon me, and then ask ChadGBT to analyze the way I am talking about this issue for evidence of certain cognitive biases, and then describe what biases might be at play as evidenced by the way in which I'm speaking about the issue.
Is that what you're saying?
[00:18:18] Juan Carlos: Yes.
[00:18:19] Jeremy Utley: And correct me, what did I get wrong or what did I, no, you did. What are the cues or what are the, what are the things to look for? 'cause I think this would be a fascinating exercise for everybody to do Right now. It's like almost push pause on this episode. And then it's like, how do they know what to look for?
Or is it just in your gut, or are there, are there indications?
[00:18:37] Juan Carlos: So think of it as almost, instead of journaling directly into a journal, you're going to voice over a challenging day as if you're journaling. Normally, you're going to be specific and explicit and honest and authentic about your feelings. And you choose to do that as a result of, Hey, this is just me talking to myself, giving myself this information so that later on I can come back to it and potentially see 2020.
And as a result of that, you're going to be able to find and come to new answers about yourself. There's less. And CERN, you're not talking, even a therapist. Sometimes you may say, Hey, I don't, I couldn't go there. Right. You know, you may not be, you know, that another person is there, even if they're being nonjudgmental and that's their job, there is still knowledge of, especially now that you've seen every other movie and show out there that shows therapists later on going like this, this crazy person.
Right. So, you know, there's judgment in any of these moments because we're human. Right. In this moment. You have this thing that is being completely nonjudgmental and you could be anybody. Obviously you're not because you've logged in and you basically have a full specific back to yourself, just in the sense of your freedom to speak to it and receive an answer, I think is unique in its.
Uh, uh, semi anonymity, which I know that's not true, but the feeling of it, the feeling tone that you have toward it and what it gives back, I think is one of, Hey, I'm, I'm journalistic here. It's not going to have thoughts, emotions, you know, it's not my, uh, sibling. It's not my best friend. It's not my wife.
It's not any of these folks. So I can speak pretty clearly and tangibly to it. And receive an answer that is in many cases, not all, but in many cases, it's a lot better than what you could receive, even from a fantastic therapist. I was thinking about Esther Perel, right? The fantastic psychologist or psychiatrist.
And I've listened to a lot of her podcasts and I was thinking, it's not that different than receiving thoughts and advice from someone of that caliber. It's pretty close, especially if you give it the right kinds of information, then it'll, it'll spit back something that is going to
[00:21:17] Henrik Werdelin: help you. I was going to back to the iPhone app and you mentioned something about being okay with it taking a few blind turns.
So blind, you know, turned down some blind road. It definitely, it resonates with me. I've tried a few times doing something with ChattyBT and then suddenly. We're at a dead end, like where it says something that didn't work or whatever. How do you kind of like, what's the equivalent of like going a little bit back from the road and then trying to find like a new, it's hard, right?
[00:21:46] Juan Carlos: It's so hard because you're so frustrated. And I think so one thing that I had to consistently tell myself is I wouldn't be this far if I didn't have this. So any, any time I started to get into a zone of I'm just going to give up. There's no way for me to get past this. I go, I'm only this far along right now because this LLM has allowed me to find my way here in the first place, and that would give me pause and I think would get my spirits back up somehow.
It's the building blocks of any app. It's connecting different apparatus. So I'm connecting a database. I'm connecting these different things. And that's usually just challenging. It's the basic setup where there's not that many instructions available on Stack Overflow and things like that. So it's just challenging from my perspective to get things going.
And so with GBT, I think it was one of those moments of, Oh, Hey, this thing. Is going to be able to tell me how to get it right. And so I thought, great. And then the first hurdle was I asked it to help me connect my, at that time, I had a CSV right of this database for mental models. And so I thought, okay, well, I, I did the work of getting all the mental models I've written into what I think is a clean spreadsheet with the right column headers.
And I want to put that into this. IOS app, and it's trying to help me do that. Right? And so fundamentally I'm going, well, I keep on trying to connect it. I'm like, it's not working. It's not working. It's not working. And it just doesn't want to do what I want it to do. And then I took sort of two steps back.
One thing is thinking about its first principles thinking and I'm a huge junkie on mental models. Anyway, what are the truth? One basic building block is I need a database to it can be really any database, right? And so. When I started to think about it, I was going, well, I overfitted the thing in the first place and I don't necessarily need to do it with a CSV.
So there's a lot of trying to think about, hey, maybe I didn't ask the question in the right way in the first place. How do I ask a different question to then illuminate a different path forward? So. That's when, you know, it sounds so simple, but when you're stuck, you're stuck. Right. And so you're looking at the tree instead of the forest.
So I then asked it, Hey, what are the methods? Which I could use to create this database. It gave me three other methods. I asked it, which is the simplest method to do? It says, make this JSON file. I go, okay, great. So then I
[00:24:48] Jeremy Utley: rebuilt. One of the things that strikes me that I just want to call out here. I had never thought of that in quite this way until this conversation.
There is a profound tendency to want to give up. I would say perhaps, I don't know if it's a cognitive bias. I'd be curious to, you know, scan your mental models. Uh, for this, but I think that the human tendency to give up is. So for example, if we look back over the arc of your story, why did you never build an app before?
I don't have the technical ability, right? And then all of a sudden you get this amazing technical co founder. Why are you tempted to quit every time? Well, because this is as far as I can get. And your simple flip of, I wouldn't be this far yet if it wasn't for that, like to me, what if I was starting fresh again today, I've noticed in my own kind of building with this, sometimes you get to the end of the day and you're just spent the wrong conclusion at the end of the day is I can't do anymore.
The right conclusion is maybe I need a break. And I think it's a profound realization that you have come to, which is I don't have to quit.
[00:25:50] Henrik Werdelin: So Gronkaz, let us just kind of make sure that we get it. If you're somebody who kind of goes building iPhone app with Jativity seems amazing. I'd like to do that.
Having done it, what would be your kind of like few recommendations and maybe a, you know, a few things that people should be aware of or avoid?
[00:26:12] Juan Carlos: So one thing is stripping down to its most basic version at the start and. If you are in this space, you know about what an MVP is, but I think it's most important here when you're building something for yourself to say, Hey, what is the absolute most basic version of this that I can build to begin?
And then I can ladder on and make it more complex as it goes along. Community that is doing, you know, user generated content, and I want to have all of the challenging interrelationships between users, et cetera, that. In and of itself is going to ask a lot from you. I don't think it's outside the wheelhouse, but if it's your first time out, like it was for me, I was going, okay, I'm not even going to try to build a cloud date.
I'm just going to make a local one that I'm going to install directly into the iOS app. How can I do that? And so questions about that early on are important. What is the simplest version and you can ask GPT for it, right? I want to do filtry. I want to, you know, create different kinds of views. I think there's different methods that you can go down with an iOS app.
And some are just more complex than others, right? So I went basic every time. Code it and do it via Swift UI. Make all the UI Swift. Don't Even do anything visual, right? So I chose against complexity every single time. And so I think that helps a lot when you're choosing and you're thinking about what, what can I do?
What do I want to do? When I decided to make sort of a card swipe type of UI. That ended up being more challenging, but I really wanted it and I wanted a light and dark mode. So there's pieces of that where I went, I'll just go for it and do something that may be unnecessary, but I wanted desperately because I knew if I wanted to use the app, I would want it to function in that way, but you don't necessarily need all those features.
What are the unique and important features that are valuable to you that you want to see come to light? Uh, that you want to be able to then use, uh, right? I think that's a big part of it, too. It's how important is that application to you? So when you're thinking about choosing something to build, it should be something that's interesting and exciting for you that if you saw it out in the world, you go, man, I really want that.
Right. I want to use it. So I think a bit of it for me is you're choosing something that is ultimately something you're deeply curious about and that you want to see.
[00:29:01] Jeremy Utley: And one thing I would say just to be cheeky on behalf of chat GPT is when you think about the. App that you envision that is never the MVP, right?
The app and the interaction and all the functionality that you envision is never the MVP. So listeners, if you just heard Juan Carlos's advice, he basically said, do the least possible and fulfill your wildest dreams. And if you find yourself going, wait, those are opposites. Exactly. That's the tension you're walking into right now.
If you do this. And the way to resolve it is right in the middle of what Juan Carlos said is if you don't know what an MVP of your wildest dreams looks like, and you find yourself stuck there, that's the first conversation we chat GBT.
[00:29:47] Juan Carlos: And in some ways it can be your product manager too, where it says, Hey.
Help me understand what version one is here so that I can then start to align on what the next versions would be after that. And so it can help you understand what that phasing might look like so that you can build a more complex application, but you start with the bricks. Uh, and even that, I mean, if you've never built an iOS app before, like me, then part of it is you get to the finish line, you have an app and then you have to put it on the app store.
And that's its own wonderfully complex dance of crap that you have to deal with. It's challenging, right? You go online, you make your developer account and you go, all right, well, where's the button to do the thing?
[00:30:36] Jeremy Utley: Yeah. Well, that brings us to a very natural kind of conclusion, either of the conversation or the conversation more broadly, but.
What's next for you? If you think about, okay, you've got to the finish line of you're in the app store. Is Juan Carlos now going to be working on the Mental Models app and pushing that forward? Or is Juan Carlos now a developer looking to develop other applications? How do you conceive of yourself and how are you thinking about what's next, having now had this transformative learning experience?
[00:31:06] Juan Carlos: Yeah, well, you and I met in what I think is part of the next step, which is I want to be able to query and think about how to help someone in decision making and how do I do that at scale? Obviously, you, you know, in part of my life, I'm a coach and I think, how would I be able to deliver? Thinking and processes and these mental models, but more specifically ways to potentially find your way through problems more easily.
And so I've gravitated towards building more chatbots that can do that. So the chatbot GPT course that we both took, that was a way to then say, okay, I want to build a simple chatbot that I can make more complex, right? And so built that on Repl. it. I think we all did, and then started to see how I could make it more specific and nuanced in the way that it delivers responses and then continues to respond after someone asks a question that they might have, so it could be a personal, professional issue that they're going through, and how do I make a decision, and so how does it deliver mental models, and then ultimately advice that would engage with someone?
Uh, directly, because one thing that I think is tough about a mental model zap is first got to figure out, Hey, what's the mental model. Then you look at the definition, then you have to imbibe it and understand it. You have to agree that it's important enough to matter. Clear thinking overall is it's so simple to say, but it's challenging to actually put a emphasis on it in your life.
I think there's a lot of ways that people position. Thought and thinking as a whole and so is there a more accessible way to be able to say, Hey, this is going to give you the information you need, the way to frame it in your life in this moment. And I think I'm looking at and thinking about more of that.
How do I take steps out of the process so that it's ultimately the most accessible? You know, it may not end up being in GPT or excuse me, it may not end up being a messaging bot on some website. Maybe it's text message, right? Hey, I'm just your buddy. Whenever you text me, I can help you out and give you some info on what you need.
And so It could be as simple as that. We're just taking out more and more of the ways in which we get in front of ourselves. We block ourselves from succeeding, you know? So how do we get out of our own way? And so that I think that's where my focus is right now. It's how do I deliver an application that allows for folks to find and understand themselves better, faster, more easily, and make choices that are smarter and wiser.
And allow them to understand the constructs of why and how they might apply those if they forget in the future. Right. So I think that's a little bit of where my head's at in terms of, Hey, it's great to have an iOS app. And I think I'd love that to be an underpinning of sort of a, a bigger concept here that was sort of recalling it right now, remind.
So it's this idea of RE or colon mind, but the idea is just, Hey, regarding your mind, right? So this thing. Is something that we're all challenged with, and it could have a lot of different kinds of outputs, but ultimately, I think the goal of it is how do we help shift someone's perspective in the right moment, in the right way so that they can get to an outcome that's better and more specific.
Faster.
[00:34:59] Jeremy Utley: Juan Carlos is so great to have you with us today. Thanks for making the time. Thanks for being here. Henrik Gordlund, what stood out to you from our conversation with Juan Carlos?
[00:35:08] Henrik Werdelin: Jeremy Audley, I'm glad you asked, uh, you know, the thing that really stood up to me is this idea that you could ask chat dbt to direct yourself, that you kind of like do this kind of whole reverse prompt and how powerful that can become, it's just fascinating saying, Hey, I'd like to do X, please direct me on how I do it, and then as long as you're okay, kind of taking a few blind alleys and kind of going back, then.
You could probably do pretty much whatever you want to do.
[00:35:40] Jeremy Utley: Yeah, I love that. To me, one of the things that stood out is we've unlocked the ability for anyone who's had this question of. What they've always wanted to see in the world. Now they have the ability to actually manifest it with chat GPTs guidance.
And just like you're saying, we often think about ourselves guiding chat GPT. We can also put chat GPT in the position of a smart engineer. That's willing to take time with me. The other thing that stood out to me was. His kind of hack around journal entry and actually pulling out one's own cognitive bias by basically asking Chachupiti to diagnose your cognitive bias by analyzing the verbiage that you use to describe a situation in a journal entry.
I think that's Such a illuminating practice that we could all do right now and probably get a lot of wisdom from that. So I'm going to go do the journal entry prompt.
[00:36:28] Henrik Werdelin: And while Jeremy does that, I'll take the opportunity to sign off on today's episode. Hope you found it interesting to figure out how you might be able to build.
And iPhone app just using dbt. And with that, thank you so much for listening. And if you liked it, as always, we really appreciate it. You could share with somebody who might also like it or, um, or rated five stars on the various streaming platforms, like a subscriber and all that stuff. Until next time, take care.